Advice?

[tripperfunster]

My father (who lives in another province) failed to aknowledge my son's 10th birthday, with either a card, gift or phonecall. .... for the second time.

Last year he missed Kid H's birthday, but remembered to send a card to kid Q on his birthday.

My dad and I have a ... somewhat strained relationship, but generally do the bare minimum of sending a small gift at christmas and at least a phone call on birthdays, plus a couple of random phone calls throughout the year.

Little history: My parents split when Harry was just a baby, and I was preggo with Quincey. (he left my mother for another woman). Despite a gentle two week reminder from me, my dad missed Harry's first birthday. I was a new mom (and pregnant with #2) and still picking up the pieces of his shattered marraige to my mother.

I wrote him a SCATHING letter, spelling out to him that he could either be a part of our lives, or he could not, but the choice was up to him. I explained to him EXACTLY what that would involve, ie: letters/cards/gifts/phonecalls (one of, not all) on major holidays, plus yanno, some sort of activity from him, be it visits or calls or cards, just to say hi, etc.

I was specific, because ... well duh, I wanted to be clear of human my expectations. I also told him that if he chose NOT to take part in my children's lives I would be disappointed, but would respect his decision. I also made it abundantly clear that there would be many people in the world that would disappoint my children and hurt their feelings, but I did NOT want them to experience assholes firsthand from their grandfather.

My dad was 'surprised and hurt' at my letter (whaaa) and emphatically said that he DID want to be part of our lives, etc etc etc.

I managed to not say anything last year when he missed Harry's birthday. My husband thinks I should stay quiet again this year, but staying quiet is just not working for me. I'm fucking livid.

I totally 'get' that I will never change my father, and he will continue to do what he does regardless of what I say or do, but SO MANY people let him do what he wants without any repercussions, just because of that. They ENABLE his assholism by letting everything slide.

I CANNOT BE AN ENABLER!!!

P.S. He has stated on more than one occasion that he doesn't really like Harry. He thinks he's a spoiled brat and doesn't enjoy spending time with him. (yanno, those one or two days every three years are reaaaally hard ...) He thinks I fail as a parent and don't discipline them enough. Granted, Harry has anxiety issues and can be hard to be around sometimes, but he's also a really smart, funny and creative child. His teacher actually told me that she shouldn't pick favourites, but Harry is one of her favourite students that she's had in years. As much as he can be difficult, he's an amazing peace keeper and wickedly insightful.


*sigh*

I guess my question to you, lovely flist, is Should I Say Something? Or not? I understand that regardless of my actions, the OUTCOME will probably not change. And if I DON'T say something, how do I reconcile that in my heart/head?

Comments

[clayangel.livejournal.com]

What it comes down to is which one will give you more grief? I, personally, have severe issues with my mother, and the other day I decided that I wouldn't let her walk all over me like she's wont to do, and actually stood up to her...but it just resulted in a screaming match, she didn't understand what she had done wrong and ended up basically thinking I was an asshole. I'm still disgusted by her behavior, but nothing was accomplished, and I'm left wondering if the pride at having stood up for myself was worth the emotional pain of the ensuing fight.

So yeah. What's worth more? Which path chosen will leave you with more inner peace? That's the road you should end up taking.

It's a real dick move on his part, though, if he is doing it on purpose like it sounds.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Thanks hon. Sadly, I don't think EITHER option will give me any inner peace. Beating him with a shovel would make me pretty happy, but that's not the most practical answer ...

Honestly, I'm not sure that he's favouring one over the other on purpose. At least, not that he'd admit to. We all have our passive/agressive sides, but he's too selfish to take the time to think that far. ;)

I'm sorry your mom is giving you grief. i guess the only thing I can REALLY do is try to not repeat this whole fiasco with my OWN children. I think I'm already a better parent due to the limitations of my own.

[torino10154]

Gotta admit I like clayangel's reply but I'll also say...if you do want to say something something like forgetting someone once can happen, twice you're not showing you DO still have an interest in being a part of the children's lives and 3 times will be the last time I bother to tell you to get your act together. Or you know something. I personally do prefer giving people one more chance but I think he's on his last one. Just my $.02 Canadian. ;)

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

While I agree about giving another chance, I was OMG so fucking clear in that letter 9 years ago. I told him that I would just tell my kids he was dead, and he'd be off the hook until he actually WAS. ;)

I am leaning towards sending him a card this month for HIS birthday, and putting in a gentle letter about how, as much as we have our differences, I still manage to make it to the post office to buy a stamp. Perhaps he could man-up and do the same for his TWO grandchildren.

The whole situation reminds me of the book "He's just not that into you". I've not read it, but the jist is: Girls complaining "Oh my boyfriend spent the night drinking with his buddies, etc. " The advice? Move on, he's just not that into you.

My dad is just not that 'into' us. I guess I just need to deal.

[pennswoods.livejournal.com]

I have no useful advice to give, but I just wanted to voice my solidarity with whatever you decide is best for you and your boys:

Sometimes our parents can be toxic assholes that we and our children would be better off without. And sometimes our parents are simply flawed/normal beings whose shortcomings we can work around because we realize there is more value in maintaining connections with them than in losing them.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

*sigh* You have pretty much exactly hit the nail on the head here. My problem is deciding exactly which one he is.

My dad is deeply flawed, but not in an abusive alcoholic/rage-monster/pedophile sort of way. He's just an asshole. One who can be wonderfully charming and funny, but also cold, selfish and juvenille.

I obviously have a whole handbasket of daddy issues of my own, so it's hard to separate them and be objective.

Luckily, my kids are pretty happy and well adjusted, and although I've tried to be careful about bad mouthing my dad in front of them, they've seen firsthand what he's like and understand that he can be a jerk. Both of my kids have commented that my mother's (new) husband is muuuuch nicer and more fun than my dad.

Out of the mouths of babes.

Thanks hon. <3

[gunxshyed.livejournal.com]

I don't have children, but I've worked with children as a teacher for years, and it's just common understanding that while you may have a favourite child or not particularly care for a child, they deserve to be treated the same way, and sometimes you'll find (as I've been shown time and time again) that the child you like the least is the one you relate to the most and the one worth the most work. This should especially be true as a grandparent in my eyes. If you said something to him about it and he started doing all of those things, would you worry about the efforts being genuine or not? Would it bother you if he was enthusiastic about one child's birthday and not the other's? I think that would get me more than anything.

I guess if it were me, I would tell him calmly that I didn't appreciate him missing Harry's birthday, and if he's not going to share love equally between the children, he won't be calling on either of them. I personally couldn't watch one be celebrated and the other not. It needs to be both or neither. I absolutely agree that the last place children should experience that kind of hurt and disappointment from is their family. Not to mention the jab at your parenting, jeez! Not acceptable.

Anyway, that's my opinion. *hugs* :(

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I'm honestly not sure that he's playing favourites. I think that would imply that he actually cares more than he does. Although in person, he would like which ever child was more polite and malleable.

He has an odd expectation that he can show up once every three years and the kids will jump into his arms and be buddies with him and treat him with the type of manners and respect that were common in the fifties.

He didn't get that from me, so I'm not sure why he thinks my kids will give it to him now.

As for enthusiasm, I would die of shock if he did more than send a card. I don't really care about his motiviation. I suppose I could browbeat him into sending cards every year, but in the long run, he's still who he is, and my kids are smart enough to see through that.

Thanks so much for your input. The more I talk about this, the more I realize that he will be who he will be, and nothing I can do or say will change that.

I will let him know of his transgressions, but hopefully I can do it without being whiney and butthurt, because he'd enjoy that too much.

[sra-danvers.livejournal.com]

Wow dear, it's a hard thing. You know, man are man. Usually don't call, or is the thing my experience tells me. You know I was separated four years, with my husband. He's a good father, now with Roger and when our daughters were babies. But you know, when we separated, he just was off. Only two fucking weekends at month, and sometimes he let my daughters with him mother. Man sucks...

I don't know what to tell you. I know I willl not say a word, but I not forgot, never. Maybe is a better thing to talk now and not to keep the things but well... it's up to you.

Hugs,

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

No! I didn't know that you had been separated from your husband. I'm so sorry!

And yes, some men are very much "out of sight, out of mind." My father is one of them. He probably only thinks about me and my kids when we are with him. This isn't new, and shouldnt' be a surprise, but I get hurt all over again every time he's an asshole.

<3

[accioslash.livejournal.com]

I genuinely don't see not saying anything as enabling behavior. His behavior isn't really impacted by you. You have smart kids; a forgotten birthday or a card purchased by their stepgrandmother while you Dad thinks Harry is ~spoiled isn't going to make your kids see their grandfather in any way other than the way he truly is. They already know he's a dick.

It's been my experience - and yours may be different - that while some people may change, the majority don't regardless what you decide to do. So you need to do whatever will be the least crazy making for you personally.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Thanks hon! Yeah, they know he's a dick. It's not exactly a family seekrit. ;)

My only real problem here is figuring out what WILL make me the least crazy. (aside from hiring a hit-man)

And you don't think staying quiet is enabling? I think he's got the ego that he does, because nobody seems to ever call him out on his bullshit. I UNDERSTAND that it won't change him in the long run, but I see my silence as ... permission?

[neko-taka.livejournal.com]

My biological parents (I was adopted by a friends parents at 14) were homophobic and beat me. So I don't take shit from no one. GTFO grampa, you had your chance.

*HUGS* I'm sorry hun. All I can really do is send positive karma.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

I"m very sorry to hear that. >:(

I'm not sure if it's helpful or not to know that there are clearly much worse people out there than him.

It's lovely that your friends' parents took you in. And I guess I should look at my own family and be grateful that my mother's new husband is a kind and wonderful person. At least they have ONE grandpa who isn't a dick.

*hugs*

[vividescent.livejournal.com]

Christ, what? He's *actually* said he doesn't really like his own grandchild? WTH? What kind of person says something like that? Much less to the parent of their grandchild. I don't even...

Ugh. Well, I don't know that there'd be much point in even saying anything - you already wrote that letter, and it's had no effect on his actions. Saying something would just be rehashing what you've already told him, and that didn't seem to work very well. :/ I think you'd probably just end up stressed and angry and as you've said, it probably wouldn't do anything.

I guess you just need to convince yourself you've already done what you could so it doesn't continue to bother you. It was up to him to do what was expected and he failed to do so. It's not your fault that this has happened, and judging from the letter you wrote to him it sounds like you almost expected something like this. :( That's very sad.

I do hope Harry had a happy birthday, though. Good luck with deciding what to do about your dad! *hugs* I hope things will get better for your family.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

I don't recall if he actually SAID he didn't like him, but he said he was difficult and spoiled and didn't like being around him and/or spending time with him, so yeah ...

My parents have always equated like/love with behaviour. Do what we want/act like we want you to and we can be a big, happy family.

I know he doesn't particularly like me either, and obviously the feeling is mutual.

I'm still not sure what to do, but just bitching about it and getting such lovely, insightful replies from everyone has been calming for me. Thanks for adding your two cents, I appreciate it.

[whatthefuckbenj.livejournal.com]

The way this sounds you've already made up your decision to say something. Maybe a reminder of that letter you wrote back then is needed and emphasize it that this is his last chance because you don't want your kids to hurt because of him.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

I know I need to say SOMETHING, the question is WHAT.

The more I get wonderful replies from my beautiful flist, the more I think I need to just give him a quick, emotionless reminder, and just FUGGETABOUTIT. Like, forever. ;)

I know I give him way too much power over my emotions, but I'm not sure how to stop. I'm much too petty and bitter to let stuff like this slide.

[akatnamedeaster.livejournal.com]

I hate to say it but some people are more trouble than they're worth. If saying something to him will take a weight off your shoulders, do it.

This kids probably aren't as bothered since he's already shown himself to be unreliable and a bit of an asshole. This is about what will make you feel better.

Sorry you're dealing with this, there's always one in every family. Mine also happened to be my father, I can't tell you the relief it's been in not having seen him in umpteen years. :P

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my son didn't really give a crap about him forgetting, so why is it so raeg making for me?

The sooner I can just write him off and forget about him, the sooner I'll be happy, but I'm just not sure how to do it.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

If it were me, I would say something. And he's actually told you he doesn't like Harry? His grandson? That is such an ugly thing to say to a mother.

*HUGS*

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Ha, yes. He has said a TON of ugly things to me. For my own good, of course. *eyeroll* He's just yanno, calling it like it is, 'cause he's such a helpful guy.

I know I need to say SOMETHING, but I guess I just need to think long and hard about what it is, and be sooo careful to keep the butthurt emotion out of it, because, like all trolls, they feed off that shit.

[synn.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree with accioslash's comment on this.
That said, if it were me, my reaction would be to cut him out - I wouldn't necesarily say anything, or stop him if/when he did send cards, but he wouldn't be visiting my kids anymore.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Well, he doesn't visit them now, so I'm not sure how that would be any different. ;)

The only problem would be when we go to Toronto, to see my mom. Not that we do it often, but there's no way we could just 'forget' to visit him.

I'm thinking that I'll send him a card this month for HIS birthday, and mention that this was the second year in a row that he missed Harry's birthday. No chastizing, no emotion, just a presentation of the facts. Then, like you said, just ...cut him out and pretend he doesn't exist after that.

Perhaps i could think of him as some long, lost uncle who shows up at the odd family gathering. Be polite, but emotionally detached.

[sabrebabe.livejournal.com]

I too, have/had issues with my father as well, and I was utterly crushed by his passive/aggressive behaviour, as well as his low opinion of me on top of it. And the deal breaker, ultimately, was the fact that he walked out on us. Divorced my mom (and us, by proxy), because he didn't want a family dragging him down anymore. The military ruled his life and for him, having a family was just too much responsibility. He couldn't even commit to a weekend visitation. I literally went *years* without even getting a phone call from my father. let alone a birthday card.

The last time I saw him was about 20 years ago when I went to Corpus Christi to see my Grandmother. Lo and behold, there he was! But had grown up and held him to a completely different standard and no longer worshiped the ground he walked on, and wouldn't even leave him alone with my kids (who were 6, 1&1 at the time). I think I've talked to him on the phone a dozen times since then, although I sent out teh obligatory Christmas card with the kids school pictures. And last year was the first Christmas card in a few years, but I had my grandson's pictures in it.

Plain and simple, I finally realised I didn't *have* a father. It hurt and it took several years to get past that pain. I just don't have one at all, and I never did. He was just a picture on the wall and a name on a page. As my own kids were growing up, they asked about him, and I only gave little pieces of information at a time, as they got older and were able to process more. He is an asshole. He was abusive and an alcoholic. He is/was manipulative. He's a jerk. And he abandoned his family for his "career" (but it didn't stop him from remarrying). My kids don't even *remember* visiting him, but they remembered Gramma Chavez (his mother, same visit!). That speaks volumes right there.

My advice: walk away. Slowly. Let it gradually drift away and rid yourself of years of pain and anguish. Your own children are watching you and learning how they are to deal with characters like him. Teach them they can walk away without being mean about it. If he comes by for a visit, then be polite and not make a big fuss, but don't treat him like he's your father. Treat him like a distant cousin coming by for a visit because they're in town and let it go no farther than that. Teach your kids that just because he's an "important name on a paper", it doesn't give him the right to slowly poison your lives with his asshattery.

A balloon on a windy day. You've been trying like crazy to hold on to what you needed as a child and didn't get. Let it go, accept what it is, and love your own family all that much more. You're the only one who is missing him. Not your kids.

just my experience with assholes who pretend to be parents (My own mother is just... emotionally distant. There just came a point where I raised myself while she lived her own life. She was too focused on keeping my brother out of trouble to bother to see what I was up to.)

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

You have a lot of great advice here. Thank you. I find it heartbreaking that so many people on my flist have family troubles.

All we really want is to be loved and accepted. It shouldn't be so hard.

I think the distant cousin thing is just about perfect.

[gestaltrose.livejournal.com]

Just let me know if you need help burying the body. :P (That's all the help I got but if you need me... I'll have to get my passport but then I will totally be there.)

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Could we burn it instead? Less evidence. ;)

<3

[r-grayjoy.livejournal.com]

Heh. Might as well say something, 'cause even if it won't change anything, it'll at least make you feel (somewhat) better, and it's not like it'll really make the situation worse. ::snort::

I'm a harsher person that you are, that's for sure. I have no available time and energy for assholes. I'd probably have written him off years ago. If not, I expect right about now is when I'd be sending the letter to inform him that he's officially out of my branch of the family, and I'll now be ignoring/throwing away any of his (lame) attempts at correspondence. Oh, and he can expect to stop receiving cards/gifts/phone calls from me as well. Honestly, I only have so much give a damn to go around.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Yanno, if i didn't have kids I'd have written him off years ago. Or, more likely, I just wouldn't give a shit if we never spoke.

I think I'll follow sabrebabe's advice above, and just ... slowly back away. Making a dramatic exit won't help anything. Polite but distant is probably the best example for my kids.

Edited to add: But fear not, I will totally rip him a new one if he EVER says anything remotely negative to my kids. He will never be alone with them. Ever.

[joanwilder.livejournal.com]

My husband's parents had an odd way of remembering/celebrating birthdays and special occasions. It was sporadic and erratic, and I never could get used to it. They had never made a big deal of their own children's birthday, and I think it carried over. Some years my kids got gifts; some times they got cards; some years it just went by without notice. My husband was the same way with my birthday and other special couples' days, probably because he learnt this at home. I've taught my own children differently. Even so, one child remembers and the other one is like their father.

BUT, I've read everyone's responses and realize you've already got lots of advice. The thing that would really bother me is that one child is remembered and the other not--whether it's intentional of not isn't the issue (although I think it's horribly juvenile to take that tack with one's own grandchildren). I've found the way to keep myself unaffected by 'forgetfulness' is to lower my expectations, so that I'm pleasantly surprised, at worst. But if my kids were the ones affected, I think I'd have to say something (I never did back then, but I've grown a pair since then, yanno?) I'd want to say, 'You know, you sent Q a card, but you just missed H's? Not sure if you forgot or it got lost in the mail, Dad, but what I'm going to have to do, since this isn't the first time, is hold back your cards unless you remember both of the boys on their birthdays. Starting with now, Dad. You can send H a late card if it was an oversight. If you don't, don't bother sending any more.' I don't know if that helps, but it gives him a chance to make a final decision.

If your dad doesn't want to participate in your boys' lives, that's really sad, and not just his loss, but theirs as well. If that happens, though, you want to be able to tell your boys that it was totally your dad's decision.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I could lower my expectations any more. I guess it's time to realize that he doesn't give a shit, and I need to stop WANTING him to give a shit. It hasn't worked in 43 years, why do I keep banging my head against that wall?

Thing is, I'm not a big birthday person. The only dates I make myself remember are my husbands, my kids and my parents. My brother and i don't bother with each other.

My father only has two grandchildren, and will only ever have two.

As to your 'final decision', I honestly think I gave him that 9 years ago.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

I don't think you should say something. I think no matter what, he won't be able to respond in a way that makes you feel better.

The natural consequence of your dad's behavior is that you are disappointed in him and not close to him, and your children aren't warm with him and don't react to him the way he wants. You warned him that could happen. He was too foolish to understand then. If you want to say to him again, "You know, if you blow off having a relationship with my children, you won't have a relationship with them, because they won't know you and won't like you," he's just going to give you the whole, "duh, I don't know what you're talking about," thing again.

Instead, accept hugs from all of us. Parents are difficult and children are wonderful, that's my opinion.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I give a shit what his response is. I'm just not very good at keeping my mouth shut. ;)

But you are completely right, of course. I'm honestly not sure if I could speak with him without losing my shit. If I DO contact him, it will be through a very short, emotionless note.

Thank god we have call display and can avoid speaking with him.

And you are right. Children are wonderful. I just hope I never get to the point where they are at a loss of what to do/say to me.

[xenafox.livejournal.com]

Don't say anything to him. He might react at first and try to fix it, but will likely settle into old habits and such. I think you'll be saving yourself even more stress than if you DO talk to him.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. Even if he gets his shit together and is good for the next year or two, he will definitely slip again. I have no doubt.

I'm not sure why I still hope he'll care. He hasn't for most of my life, why would he suddenly start now?

[demicus.livejournal.com]

Late response from me (sorry). We were at the hospital all day & most of the evening visiting the best dad in the world.

Firstly, I hope Harry had a wonderful birthday!

Secondly, I'd tell your dad (perhaps in his birthday card) that I was disappointed but not surprised by his 'forgetfulness'. That's it; no requests, no stronger words, not even any mention of expectations. That might let him know that you've pretty much had it & that you've no more dialogue to waste on him. He sounds like an emotional drain. You deserve so much better, & so do your children.

PS Congratulations to your mom for being lucky enough to not have to spend any more time with him.

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm so sorry your dad is ill! :(

Harry had a pretty good birthday, regardless of 'Grandpa John'.

He still hasn't had a party, because he can't decide what he wants to do. *eyeroll*

Yes, both my parents are emotionally draining, my father especially so. And OMG yes! I am so happy that my mother found a wonderful, caring thoughtful man. She is over the moon. :D

Thanks for the advice hon. I'm still not sure if I'll say anything (ever again) to him, but the note you mentioned is probably what I'll do if I do anything at all. <3

[juniperus.livejournal.com]

My mother in law is a lot like this.

I just treat her, mostly, as an outside entity. Any real contact (real being something other than her saying hi to elderkind via facebook) is a pleasant addition to normal life so absence isn't a detraction. She's missed Xmas, birthdays (even having sent an invitation to parties) for both... and it was no different for husband and BiL (whey were raised by Basilisk and their grandfather for a reason) - she's utterly self-absorbed. And she lives less than an hour away.

My parents, across the state, are the grandparents.
She's... an occasional visitor.
I tried when elderkind was a baby/toddler to make up the gap in attention. I gave up on it - it wasn't worth my frustration.

I'd (and we know I'm kind of a mouthy bitch) be inclined to let him know that if he chooses to not recognize one child's birthday he need not bother for the other. That your children will not be hurt by him while you can still take a breath. And that if he decides, at some point, that he'd like to be their grandfather to let you know -- but until then they will live happy lives without him.

*hugs you and the boys*

He can't be changed. It's not your baggage to carry nor your problem to correct. Fretting over the fact that he's an asshole he is is putting your energy into something that will never provide returns on that energy - acknowledge, find mental and emotional distance, and move on. Mitigate the damage for your boys and hug them extra tight.

*more hugs*

[tripperfunster.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, if it was my MiL, I'd have less issues with it. I'd probably just tell her to fuck the hell off. But because it's MY dad, and I already have truckloads of daddy issues, I'm so emotionally ingrained in the whole mess, I'm not able to distance myself properly.

You are completely right though. He is not my baggage to correct. I gave him an OMG very clear message years ago, and he has chosen his own path.

I really like sabrebabe's advice to say nothing at all, not even a birthday card for him, but honestly? I'm much more mouthy and petty than that. :D

If I can't manage to keep my pie-hole shut, I will most likely send a note much like the one you described. Then I'll just back the fuck away.

<3

[sumsumlovesyou.livejournal.com]

Sorry I'm so late to respond!!
If I were in your shoes, I would probably say something. You can't pick and choose who you're related to (boy, wouldn't that be handy at times, right?) but you should love them no matter what, and you don't get to choose one grand kid over another. I got one weird as heck socially special nephew and one semi-normal one (none of us are truly normal) but I treat them 100% the same, and their grandparents do too. No matter how awkward, anxious, or whatever, they're still special and worthy of love and acknowledgement. I'd-a ripped your father a new one. I'm very quick to tell my family what I think, when I think it. If they have a problem with it, while I love them no matter what, they can move on if they don't agree. So, yeah. If you were to tell him off, I'd totally understand.
Now if only I could just tell off my in-laws.....

[leoparda.livejournal.com]

*hugs you*